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Can’t say we didn’t know
Nov 16, 2012 | 2157 views | 27 27 comments | 12 12 recommendations | email to a friend | print
Editor:

I understand the despair of Martha Haun, following the election. We had a choice between liberty and tyranny, and tyranny won. We have had four years to evaluate Obama’s presidency, so we cannot say we did not know what we are getting.

This is a man who can look into a TV camera and lie to the American people. He blames others for his failures and believes it is moral to take what someone has earned and redistribute to others. He calls it fairness; I call it theft. He considers the Constitution nothing but an impediment to his grand scheme of social engineering. He represents a party that had to vote three times to put God back into their platform. He believes it is moral to murder an unborn baby for convenience. When he was an Illinois state senator, he refused to vote for a bill requiring medical care for a baby born alive after a partial birth abortion. He considers freedom of religion just another roadblock in his plan.

In the week before the election, I considered the moral decay in my country and accepted the fact that Obama would be re-elected. The only hope for our country is to return to the biblical principles upon which this country was founded. God said in 2 Chronicles 7:14, “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from Heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.”

The election is over, and God is still in control.

Bettye Sevier
Comments
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laselva
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November 28, 2012
There's a lot of behavior in the natural world that seems at odds with our own perceptions of what's moral or natural. Another study found that 75% of female sea gulls engage in lesbian activity. What does God have to say about that? And are they doomed to life in bird hell? Todd akin is an idiot, not for what he said, but for believing that what he said had any truth to it. Women do have a natural defense at times: A woman constantly produces cervical fluid (or mucus) throughout her menstrual cycle. Most of the time this mucus is acidic and deadly to sperm. But as she approaches ovulation, the mucus changes and become conductive to sperm and actually assists keeping sperm alive (for up to 3-5 days) until the egg is released maximising her chance of conception.

And what is a legitimate rape anyway? Is a rape legitimate only when the perpetrator is convicted? And at that point, wouldn't it be too late to do anything for the unfortunate victim who was not allowed an abortion?

Rape is a violent crime against a woman and being forced to carry the unwanted fetus is disgusting...much more disgusting than an abortion.

laselva
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November 26, 2012
Let's ask Mother Nature about this topic since we haven't figured out just what God wants.

The trend of aborting babies in the face of strange males is known as the Bruce effect. That’s not a slight against men of that name; the effect is named after the scientist who discovered it – Hilda Margaret Bruce. In 1959, she noticed that pregnant mice will abort if they’re exposed to unfamiliar males. Since then, scientists have found the same effect among other laboratory rodents, and domestic horses. But the Bruce effect has always remained a quirk of captivity. No one really knew if wild animals do the same thing.

A new study found that geladas, a relative of the baboon, do have abortions in the wild:

Normally, the failure rate for gelada pregnancies is around 2 per cent. If a new male arrives, it shoots up to 80 per cent. ... But why would a pregnant female abort her own fetus? Roberts thinks that it’s an adaptive tactic in the face of a new male’s murderous tendencies. Since the male would probably kill the newborn baby anyway, it’s less costly for the female to abort than to waste time and energy on bringing a doomed infant to term. Her future offspring, conceived more quickly and fathered by the incumbent king of the hill, will stand a better chance of survival.
DifferentView2
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November 28, 2012
Interesting information. However, it may add fuel to the fire of the Todd Akin types who think that the body has defense mechanisms to avoid pregnancy.
FedUpPatriot
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November 21, 2012
The child can always be placed for adoption. There are some academics who advocate post birth abortion in cases where the child has problems are present a financial hardship. This is a slippery slope (and I dislike this phrase) we are on. First it was no abortion after the third trimester and then partial birth abortion. A woman can take responsibility and prevent unwanted pregnancies, except in the case of rape,of course. The child could still be given for adoption. I have said all I care to say to you and choose not to read any more of your posts. We will all be judged by God someday.
DifferentView2
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November 21, 2012
Post birth abortion? Whoa, where did that absurd idea come from because it certainly didn't come from me?

Okay, I'll respond with an equally absurd question. Do you want to grant those fetuses any property rights since you are already granting them life and liberty?

I was also amused that you fell back to the adoption argument since I knew that was coming before I completed typing my earlier response. If a woman wants to give a baby up for adoption then it is her decision. However, government has no role in forcing a woman to deliver a baby to give up for adoption. That thought reduces the role of women to breeding stock which is insulting.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving! I can't wait to read your next comment even though you wrote that you wouldn't read any more of my posts.
FedUpPatriot
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November 21, 2012
Different Views

On the first day of conception, this group of cells, this new and unique human, is formed.All the inherited features and gender of this new person are set. At 18 to 20 days, the foundation of the brain, spinal, and nervous system are laid. The heart begins to beat at 21 days,gaining strength daily.At 9 weeks (a day later), eyes begin to develop and the earliest stages of ears are present. At 28-30 days the arms appear and budding legs follow 2 days later.The beginnings of the mouth takes shape and the nose starts to develop. Blood flows in the baby's veins and the tongue begins to form. The face appears. At 42 days , the brain is now divided into 3 parts- one to experience emotion and understand language: one for hearing; one for seeing. Joints begin to form. Mother has now missed her second period. At 44 days , facial muscles develop and eyelids begin to form.Elbows take shape and internal organs are present. 99% of muscles,each with its own nerve supply, are present. Spontaneous movement begins at 7 weeks.At 8 weeks the baby is well proportioned, about the size of a thumb. Every organ is present. The liver is making blood and the kidneys function. The skull, elbows and knees are forming.Of the 4500 structures in the adult body, 4000 are already present. The skeleton of arms, legs & spine begin to stiffen as bone cells are added.At 12 weeks , the baby swallows and responds to skin stimulation. Many babies are aborted at this point. At 4 months, the child can grasp with hands, make a fist & turn somersaults. At seven months, eyelids open and close, eyes look arounf , mothers voice is heard and recognized. From this point on is when partial birth abortion is performed. You may call this a group of cells, I call it a human being.
DifferentView2
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November 21, 2012
Meanwhile, I use the correct scientific terms and call it either an embryo or a fetus. To me, the "being" part of "human being" means being born.

I don't know of any religious or philosophical argument that would provide justification for bringing an unwanted child into the world to live with a parent that must deal forever with the resentment of how the child was conceived. Stop punishing the victim and let her move on with her life. Don't be a tyrant and force a victimized woman to have a child that she doesn't want.

And wasn't my first comment about tyrants the reason this discussion began initially?
DubiousForever
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November 20, 2012
FedUp

I have a feeling it is like this...The first 10 amendments to the constitution are the best laws ever written because they state what the government CANNOT do to the people. EVERY other amendment is a morality issue between sides and tries to somehow circumvent the first 10 amendments. Further, I am male, my opinion about abortion is at best 2nd place. This is a women's issue primarily, in my opinion.
DubiousForever
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November 20, 2012
FedUp

And what of the innocent rape victim, or the innocent incest victim? Does not your "limited government" protect them also?
FedUpPatriot
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November 21, 2012
No government can really protect anyone from rape or incest. These are horrible crimes. The other victim is the unborn child, resulting from these crimes. The perpetrator is spared the death penalty, even in child rape, and the victim is put to death. Does this make sense? Turtle and eagle eggs are protected by federal law, but not unborn human children. This is not a male or female issue, this is a moral issue.
DifferentView2
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November 21, 2012
The problem with your response is that you are considering the needs of only one of the victims--the fetus conceived during the crime. No woman should be forced to carry a baby and give birth in those circumstances. Why should the woman be punished by having to provide for an unwanted child for the remainder of her life?

In addition, the courts have found that the criminals in those situations have parental rights. Regardless of legal entanglements, the birth of the fetus creates a link between both parents for the rest of their lives. Declaring that the rights of a group of cells supersede the rights of a living human who is experiencing the thoughts and emotions of a crime is some backward thinking is like putting the cart before the horse.

It isn't a perfect world, but I think that most Christian denominations believe that the souls of the unborn and innocent already go to heaven. The government should not be in the business of condoning criminal actions by mandating that the birth occurs.
DifferentView2
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November 21, 2012
Oops, sorry Dubious. When I said "your response", I was replying to FedUp.
FedUpPatriot
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November 20, 2012
Dubious

What I am saying is that it is government's job to protect innocent human life. This applies to limited as well as bloated government whether it be

federal, local or state government.
FedUpPatriot
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November 20, 2012
What does the Republican stance on health insurance in the 90s have to do with my belief in limited government? I also believe in the sanctity of life and marriage. I believe the government has the responsibility to protect the most vulnerable among us. Who is more vulnerable in America today than a baby in the womb? These beliefs do not make me a Republican, but prohibit me from being a Democrat.
DubiousForever
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November 20, 2012
So what you are saying is that forcing women to have babies, no matter the circumstances, is "limited government"???
DifferentView2
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November 20, 2012
FedUp,

I brought up health insurance because that is what conservatives point to as tyranny where government is taking control of every aspect of people's lives. I didn't think that it was necessary to explain the comment.

However, I don't believe that government has the responsibility of telling a pregnant woman to carry a baby to term. The rigidness that the Republicans showed on this issue is certainly not "limited government" and I would say quite "tyrannical".

I don't believe that anybody favors abortion as a birth control method. However, abortions will occur regardless of any legislative efforts to stop it. Since this is a fact, I prefer to see abortion available as a safe legal medical procedure instead of a dangerous option where back room abortion providers with no medical background hike their prices and provide inadequate medical care.
feelark
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November 19, 2012
Had the Re-pubs won, we would be bantering words about such as oligarchy and corporatocracy...Ole Mittens reminded us that (quote) "Corporations are people, my friend"
FedUpPatriot
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November 19, 2012
You all have your ideologies and opinions.Mine are very different I believe in limited government and personal responsibility. We are are too far apart to debate the issues. We are wasting our time.Have a good life.
DifferentView2
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November 19, 2012
Yes, I suppose personal responsibility is fine when the Republicans advocated for an individual mandate on health insurance policies back in the 1990's. However, when a Democrat advocates for personal responsibility and an individual mandate then you will fall back on your ideas of limited government.

How convenient and how hypocritical.

I wish you a good life also and I'm certain that you'll grow to love Obamacare.
DifferentView2
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November 17, 2012
So America chose tyranny? Someone is living in an alternate reality. LOL!

(The opinion stated above is mine and not the property of MSNBC).
FedUpPatriot
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November 18, 2012
When government controls every aspect of our lives,

that is tyranny. America spoke. So be it. You sometimes get what you ask for, I hope it works out for you.
DifferentView2
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November 18, 2012
And when corporations control every aspect of our lives, then it is known as fascism. That was the choice that was made evident to me in this election.

Yes, America spoke and I am glad that President Obama won. I hope that works out for you.
FedUpPatriot
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November 19, 2012
Fascism: 1. a philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong centralized government;usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism. 2.7 Oppressive or dictatorial control.

No,I don't think it will work out for me or the country, but I'm glad you are happy.
DifferentView2
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November 19, 2012
There are some general characteristics by which one can recognize fascism. These include racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia and religious bigotry. All of those characteristics were shown by the GOP during the past year.

I noticed that you only picked definitions 1 and 2.7. Why did you conveniently omit the definitions for 2.1 through 2.6?

Also, you haven't explained why you think that President Obama is a tyrant since government does not control every aspect of our lives.
DubiousForever
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November 16, 2012
One-half Fox News and one-half The 700 Club, shaken, not stirred...
FedUpPatriot
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November 17, 2012
All MSNBC, shaken,swallowed and regurgitated
rickysgirl8rid
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November 16, 2012
EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT LETTER !!!!!!!!!!